new styles

topic posted Sun, December 4, 2005 - 9:38 AM by  Fitch
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hey everyone. so i first started stickin when i was like 7 and now i am 21 but i havent had a pair of sticks for almost 10 years so i have been very out of the loop. well i just got a pair of equinox lunastix and they are the best stix i have played with, the grip is amazing. i can do all the stuff thats been around forever like all the tricks on devilstick.org but the lunastix being as grippy as they are open up a whole new world of possibilities and thats what im really interested in. so i was wondering if anyone has any resources having to do with new techniques and styles that have come about in the last 10 years like some of the tricks on the lunastix web page like the timothy rolls and stuff. i cant find anything about anything online, its all just the same old stuff. give me anything; how has devil sticking progressed in the last 10 years whats new? like i said i have been very out of the loop.....so if anyone knows ANYTHING please help me out....also i would really just like to hear from all of you about your own styles. i have really been getting in to different timothy roll variations or timothy roll type tricks. just a more smoth fluid motion type thing sort of encompassing contact juggling as well. im also really in to bounce off stuff too, and i have also been working on mixing lots of baton\staff techniques in with it too.......howsabout you?
posted by:
Fitch
Miami
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  • Re: new styles

    Sat, April 15, 2006 - 7:38 AM
    I met a couple of cool kids the other day, they were pretty ince stickers, a girl and a boy. The girl (about 5 0r 6) would stand on the boy´s ( about 7 or 8 years old) shoulders, and they would perform for cars at a traffic light. Maybe use can find a buddy!
  • Re: new styles

    Sun, August 19, 2007 - 10:56 PM
    hello I have 6 styles I like to work with I would be happy to teach you anything I can.
    I have a youtube acount with some videos you should look at them and then mabe drop me a line some time. www.youtube.com/burnonedown2day
    peace
    Burnonedown2day@hotmail.com
    • Re: new styles

      Tue, August 21, 2007 - 1:22 PM
      Nice videos David. What do you mean when you say "I have 6 styles I like to work with"?
      • Re: new styles

        Tue, August 21, 2007 - 1:50 PM
        i mean that i have 6 diferent ways of spining the stix. each one different in ways from the other.
        • Re: new styles

          Wed, August 22, 2007 - 9:24 AM
          So, for example... like adjustments in speed and agression with the stick and adjustments in your dance or

          like crossing the hand sticks, and playing with the side of the hand stick that is close to you, and buzz-saw patterns and tosses?

          I would love to hear some more detail about the palace of knowledge in your mind about the sticks. I break the stick tree of knowledge into the motion of the stick and the motion of my body and the interaction of the two.

          The motion of the stick I see as being two part. It can move vertically or horizontally. In both you can either allow it to continue moving in the same direction or stop it and move it in the opposite direction. The motion of my body is it's own explanation. The interaction is a really fun thing to play with... for example doing a one handed tic-toc, where the baton makes half a turn before being caught, you could do with your elbow and the hand stick, or your foot and the hand stick. So the motion of the baton is the same or possibly changing hieghts but the interaction is changing.
          • Re: new styles

            Wed, August 22, 2007 - 5:36 PM
            There is a sore lack of contemporary devil stix community, and style/tech development. We all need to get on it I guess.
            I started playing some form of flower stix or another aprox~13 years ago and haven't stopped growing since. From Stix I've branched out into all sorts of other mediums in object manipulation ie poi, staff/contact staff, contact juggling/sphereplay, diabolo, etc. I find the cross-pollination of the disciplines invaluable.

            Devilstix and staff are essential using the same basis for a prop: for example you can think of contact staff as substituting your hands and arms for control stix, and vice versa you can adapt contact staff body rolls, leg work, elbow, neck, and shoulder work to devil stix. Spinning double staff or a pair of poi is really not that much different from spinning double devilstix, the more you refine your control stix baton relationship with both hands in all planes.

            Two spheres in each hand is the same thing for doubles patterns as two staves/stix each sphere is an analog to each end of the batons.

            If you are familiar with poi flower patterns, you can do buzzsaw flowers same spin and antispin with a combination of bicycles and transitions in stix terms. You can also do the analog of weaves with devil stix. Familiarize yourself with other mediums and doors will open across all of your props!

            I would suggest that stix players familiarize themselves with the planes theory of contemporary poi and staff spinning. The beautiful thing about devil stix i that they naturally lend them selves to spirals and plane-bending/dynamic changes in rotation. This is something that the poi and staff community is just starting to get a handle on and us stix players have been doing for decades.
            >> Adam: remind me when we get together with a camera to shoot plenty of stix footage besides the obligatory poi stuff!

            Hope this sparks some creativity,
            -Alien Jon
            • Re: new styles

              Wed, August 22, 2007 - 10:50 PM
              I like what you have to say about other tools improving your skill levels. I try to know a little of everything but I try my hardest for fluidity in motion and to perfect every trick and transition to and from this gives me little time to practice other stuff....but I do need to learn some new stuff I always have fun I am trying to learn how to juggle hackysacks right now and it is hard but fun.
              • Re: new styles

                Fri, October 12, 2007 - 10:32 AM
                Check out my sticks! I have made them for fifteen years and am very proud of their durability and movement. Unfortunately, anyone using surgical tubing based sticks can not have the full range of devil stick motion and will be completely unable to translate the motion of the center stick into fast gyroscopic movements, one of the foundations of my dancing style. There are pictures in my profile. I live in SF and help with a circus night at station 40 at mission and sixteenth, tuesday at 7:30 on 16th across from the bart.

                Syngerella
  • Re: new styles

    Fri, October 12, 2007 - 7:25 PM
    The cross pollination, as The Alien, mentions is a great testing ground for new ideas and tricks. I have begun losing some of the pheno-typic mind sets associated with object manipulation. There is really only one toy and we simply see different aspects of THAT toy. It may be expressed as a firm object or soft, weighted or light but the motions and geno-type of your and the objects movement are contained within the same four dimensional space.

    Once you access the geno-type of, say, isolation of one location on the object, which may include the entire object, that branch of manipulation is now yours to play with. Or after you access the anti-spin part of reality, you can apply this geno-type to the sticks or staves or walking or mathematical solutions to differential equations.

    In addition to helping access new ideas other objects help get some of the mental pruning happening that is necessary for any type of learning.

    From the standpoint of a student of physics, which I am, one particular comment that I see mentioned repeatedly that is simply not true is that the devil sticks are a gyroscopic toy. Gyroscopes are objects in which the gyroscopic approximation can be applied and the gyroscopic effect is seen. As the angular velocity of an object increases so does its angular momentum. Once the angular momentum is sufficiently high you will notice that applying torque (force * radius) to the object causes it to precess. Where the precession's direction is perpendicular to both the direction of the force and the direction of the angular momentum. It is particularly noticable in objects like the diabolo or yo-yo. To my knowledge I have never seen or heard of a devil stick actually acting like this. If anyone would like to discuss this more, I would especially like to discuss it more. But I am sure your sticks are perfect for you.

    David: would you be kind enough to tell me what are the 6 styles you speak of? If it's classified, that's cool. If you would like to really discuss it. I would too. A new thread may be just the place for that discussion.
    • Re: new styles

      Sat, October 13, 2007 - 11:11 AM
      We will have to agree to disagree Adam. When I play with the devil stick it spins rapidly on it's axis, perhaps not a true gyroscope, and perhaps Mr Professor you would like to tell what my devil stick does as it sits horizontally in front of me, suspended in the air, as I am using my handle stick to gently stroke it causing it to move faster and faster around it's own axis.. Not moving in space, only rotating on it's own axis in one place, like a yoyo when it's sleeping.

      From some online dictionary:
      Gyroscope: A device consisting of a spinning mass, typically a disk or wheel, mounted on a base so that its axis can turn freely in one or more directions and thereby maintain its orientation regardless of any movement of the base.

      As I mentioned above, surgical tubing sticks stick too much to enjoy this affect. Rather than rapidly rotate, they barely spin. Getting them to rotate is a bear. I agree that there is one toy and all are variations, and that you can even see it as a metaphor for life. But:

      Syngerella
      • Re: new styles

        Sat, October 13, 2007 - 1:35 PM
        Effect, I meant to say....

        Feel free to enlighten me on the gyroscopticity of my pronouncements....
        Syngerella
        • Re: new styles

          Sat, October 13, 2007 - 8:06 PM
          I would just like to make it clear that it is not a true gyroscope and you don't have to be a professor to be knowledgable about how the phenomena in the world works, we are all studying it through our play.

          It is a spinning object and you can make it go faster, I agree. In the definition you posted it mentions that the gyroscope is mounted on a base so that its axis can turn freely. The stick is not mounted to a base. The reason gyroscopes have become useful is that they help people guide ships of different sorts. The gyro is usually restricted on some access so that the axis of rotation (in mathematics: the angular momentum vector) can adjust to match some other axis of rotation, like the Earth's. So you could, for example, tell what your latitude is.

          If the stick became a true gyroscope then you would have to do something to it to notice and to truly make it float in the air without you pushing it away from the Earth. It would need to be moving extremely fast in some translational motion (center of stick moving relative to the Earth) or you could put some torque on it, changing its angular momentum vector's direction. Then you would notice you need to put a relatively small amount of effort in to get it moving away from the Earth.

          You can call it whatever you like, and you know that, and you will. But calling it a gyroscope is misleading and suggesting that it exhibits behavior that is similar to something it is not.

          I apologize for giving you a hard time about it. Language and science have developed hand-in-hand and when words misrepresent what is being expressed communication through it is useless. I am sure people understand what you mean when you say that the surgically tubed sticks cannot move as fast as your sticks but I am sure there is a better way to express it: "Unfortunately, anyone using surgical tubing based sticks can not have the full range of devil stick motion and will be completely unable to translate the motion of the center stick into fast movements, one of the foundations of my dancing style."

          My style is based largely on moving the stick as slowly as I can. I love having the time to observe and experience the stick flow within a few inches past my back or leg keeping the direction of the stick tangent to the curve of my body. I also love the tubing because I can flow into and out of contact motions without it sliding all over the place, useless I'm all sweaty.

          Question to all: Can you rotate your hand stick while doing a propellor so that the hand stick rotation and baton rotation perfectly match each other and the stick carves out a large circle with it's center? If this question is not clear, I could post a video with the motion I am speaking of. I watched a bunch of devil stick players, not flower stick players this summer and didn't see any devil stickers performing this motion. Please mention what sticks your playing with: Devil, Flower (tubed or not tubed).
          • Re: new styles

            Sat, October 13, 2007 - 10:14 PM
            I'm curious as to what you're referring to Synergella, whatever we want to call it. Are you talking about getting a horizontal spin going really fast, and then letting it spin on a stationary control stick? Is there any roll?

            Also, do you have a link to pictures of your sticks so we can see what you are using:-)?

            -Alien Jon
            • Re: new styles

              Sun, October 14, 2007 - 12:19 AM
              It is rolling and stationary in space, and as I apply torque with the handlestick ever so slightly(and constantly) it increases its momentum around its own axis, providing a weird function, the faster it goes the more it wants to stay in place. Exactly like a yo-yo that is sleeping, as I mentioned. This seems to comport to the terms under discussion and as we are having a proper linguistic exchange of ideas and concepts, I maintain that it is a gyroscopic effect, as is ideal for contact juggling and object manipulation in general.
              I believe the term is torque induced precession and is described in wikepedia as:
              From wikipedia:
              "Torque-induced precession (gyroscopic precession) is the phenomenon in which the axis of a spinning object (e.g. a part of a gyroscope) "wobbles" when a torque is applied to it. The phenomenon is commonly seen in a spinning toy top, but all rotating objects can undergo precession. If the speed of the rotation and the magnitude of the torque are constant the axis will describe a cone, its movement at any instant being at right angles to the direction of the torque. In the case of a toy top, if the axis is not perfectly vertical the torque is applied by the force of gravity tending to tip it over."

              Oh and it is not on the control stick, it is stationary in the air in front of me. I wind it subtly with the control stick( I never heard it called that) and the more torque I give it the more solidly it stays in place, hence the gyroscopic metaphor.

              I love slowing things down as well, and dance both slow and fast. I just don't like the surgical tubing and unless you designed it I am not sure why it is being construed as anything but an opinion. I can slow down any devil stick by moving excruciatingly close, but not on top of the center. Then you fall into the spiral void we all know so well. I am shy about the word control stick as it seems the object has as much say where it is going as I. Having travelled with it many times, I can guess which way it will go, but I like to think it manipulates me. Or, I am opening myself to being manipulated by the Infinite. I will post a pic shortly...
              Syngerella

              • Re: new styles

                Sun, October 14, 2007 - 8:09 AM
                Do you have any video of this? The precession implies that it's center moving in space, as the picture on wikipedia shows. And/or the angle of the axis is moving in space with a constant or fairly constant change in direction. It is either precessing or stationary.
              • Re: new styles

                Sun, October 14, 2007 - 12:45 PM
                It is amazing. Look at these two statements.

                1) In physics, the angular momentum of an object rotating about some reference point is the measure of the extent to which the object will continue to rotate about that point unless acted upon by an external torque.

                2) It is rolling and stationary in space, and as I apply torque with the handlestick ever so slightly(and constantly) it increases its momentum around its own axis, providing a weird function, the faster it goes the more it wants to stay in place.

                If we focus on the second statement: it increases its momentum around its own axis ...the faster it goes the more it wants to stay in place.

                The first statement is from wikipedia's angular momentum page and the second is from Syngerella's last post. The second almost perfectly describes a large angular momentum, an object rotating about a reference point that will continue to rotate about that point.
                • Re: new styles

                  Mon, October 15, 2007 - 10:05 AM
                  Hi again adam,
                  So until i get some video of it...
                  i don't really care about the thing anymore and am done posting about it. I was going to draw a picture of it, but have lost interest, you are probably right anyway. i have no interest in proving you wrong, i just like to play with devil sticks....
                  bye,
                  syngerella
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                    Re: new styles

                    Mon, October 15, 2007 - 10:50 AM
                    yo- I have been doin tricks like that for about 3 years now. Pretty cool stuff. Keep it up
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                    Re: new styles

                    Mon, October 15, 2007 - 10:53 AM
                    Hi again,
                    I've had some coffee, drawn a picture, and am hoping this will at least describe the effect which i have not been able to even roughly approximate with surgical tubing sticks. If this is not torque induced precession then what is it?
                    Syngerella

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